Like I said, this study shows that 20 volunteer less athletic males were outperformed in some areas by 20 volunteer females. No study could or would be done to counter that. I just don't think it has anything to say that we don't know. There was a study that did find male advantage until it found hormone treatment brought it down into female ranges after like a year I think? I can dig it up if you want. We were talking about it in this thread.
I’ve never seen a study showing that trans women have an unfair advantage over cis women. We have at least a decade of competition in multiple states to analyze. There’s currently no reason to keep trans women from competing against cis women.
Heres the study you wanted to see: Trans women retain athletic edge after a year of hormone therapy, study finds https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc...dge-after-year-hormone-therapy-study-n1252764
Considering your objections to the study I quoted, it seems a bit disingenuous to then cite a study of 75 people. Even still, seems like this study says that many of the differences in this tiny sample disappear after 2 years. You good with allowing trans women to compete in the Olympics after 2 years of hormone treatment? Also, this seems important:
You asked for me to cite a study that said differently so I did. I didn't remember the details but reading the article it does seem like a much better source of data and conclusions to glean with them all being airpersons and the data being recorded systematically over time. Agree that these samples are mostly going to be small and certainly imperfect. And no, I think sports should be separated by sex because they are different physiologies and female people as a group deserve their own stuff.
I think some people would change their vote now but that initial reaction is what the GOP feeds off of
I previously voted for the "Yes but must compete according the genitalia they were born with". But that's just a casual vote here. Truth be told, I don't particularly care where they compete as long as there isn't any special injury risks to the competitors. However, until there are more studies done on this, it's going to be the new Boogie Man for the right wing. Though, even if there are tons of studies on it and those studies suggest there isn't an advantage, it's still going to be a right wing talking point.
You could do a million studies and it won’t change their minds because they will just shift the goalposts
this would be so much less of an issue if the ncaa would have just given riley gaines her precious 5th place trophy
I've never even given a shit about what studies say in the first place. Be inclusive because sports don't matter
No. I don't hold the view that being a woman is an identity, a role, a deeply held belief or anything like that so I try to avoid using language that echoes that idea. I think female people deserve a word to describe them and considering woman has been the operating term in English for a long time, I'm gonna support sticking with that one and avoiding sex denialism and it's accompanying harmful effects. That said, I generally try to be polite when I don't agree with someone's worldview but I also think it's a good thing for would-be censors to hear stuff they don't like. Reinforces pluralism
That's often a fine idea. In this case, the language itself is making a statement that I do not agree with, that woman is some nebulous thing you can opt into, and it's kind of a big deal for society and stuff.
It's really not. I don't think you're a cloud or a berry but I'll call you cloudberry bc that's what you've presented for me to call you. Just be a nice person and call people what they want to be called and society will be aight.
You don’t have nearly the requisite understanding of sex to make the comments you are making. I know this because if you did have that understanding, you wouldn’t make these comments. You think you sound smart, but in reality you just prove how dumb you actually are.
Sure, we agree. But he's free to think differently but no need to be a dick. I'm not going to force my opinion on him while asking him to not force his opinion on others. He's free to think what he wants, just address people as they wish to be addressed.
Getting this worked up about it is some ignorant shit The whole just doing it for sports success is some insane logic. Let me get hated way more in a day than most get in their lifetime plus all the death threats, that sounds like fun!
Honestly for me it's not even science, it's just being a good person. You're free to think what you want but just being a hateful cunt and purposefully calling someone something they don't want to be called bc you think your opinion matters more than their desire is elite dickhead behavior. It's major "His momma called him Clay, I'm gonna call him Clay" vibes and fuck that.
This a very different than named. A better analogy would be like a group of white people identifying as a neighboring native tribe and giving themselves the name The White Navajo. The Navajo might be encouraged by some to indulge them, but should they be obliged to use that name? Should they "be nice"? I could not a blame those who say, no I don't agree to use your terms. And you are right, there are huger issues of course, but it's a subtle shaping of thought by language and it's part of an agenda I think is bad
Yes, just call people what they want to be called. Stop twisting your head into a pretzel. The huge issue is being a dick just to be a dick bc you think your opinion matters. It doesn't. Just call people what they want to to be called. It's easy.
This is so dumb, man. The last time we went around on this you just vaguely talked complexity and mostly talked about gender stuff. I assume you haven't disproved male and female since then.
I’ve given you all the information necessary. Read the damn thread. Or continue being a dumbass. It ain’t my job to make you stop being a moron. That’s on you.
Sorry I thought I made a pretty darn good analogy that explained why one shouldn't be obliged to use the terms of someone they disagree with, much less being actively coerced! I can only tell you truthfully I'm just taking a small personal stand about something I believe that I think is important. I'm not using what I see as false terms, that's all. If that reads dickish, that's fine. This is America
im not doing this shit. This isn’t America. This is a totalitarian dictatorship and I am a fucking dick so get fucked with this bullshit.
That's fine, just know you're an asshole. If you're cool with that, so be it. It is America, you're free to say what you want. But there's consequences for your actions and people will judge you for the words you use. If you think voicing your opinion on what someone wants to be called is worth being judged as an asshole, go for it.
It's always wild how this topic can just break people Also most of them are British who it happens to Someone should figure that out
Always wondered who the people are who would be a big enough asshole to not call someone what they preferred to be called, whether it a name or gender. I'm also guessing he would not do that to someone in-person.
Your analogy is trash. The premise that gender is a “tribe” where there are people who are either a part of the “tribe” or aren’t doesn’t make sense. Tribes are a group of people with a collective set of beliefs- a culture. A person’s gender is solely their own and has no impact on any other person. It’s none of my business how someone else identifies and they have no obligation to explain how they identify, I should just refer to them however they wish. Cultural appropriation, as your stupid analogy attempts to describe, is not akin a person’s gender identity.
Just so you guys know he won’t reply because he can’t reply. We’re not doing hate by covering it up with an “aw shucks I don’t mean any harm “ bullshit schtick . Having an opinion is one thing being a hatful bigot is another and fuck that.
I have a theory that at least 75% of transphobia is from folks who can't reconcile being attracted to a woman who was born a man so they do this goofy displaced argument about strict genderism
I have the same basic theory about homophobia I told a guy (jon) one time, referring to a gay friend that jon had just said some stupid bigot thing about behind their back. I guess thinking i would laugh about it. I asked him " honestly, what is it about Kyle that you're afraid of? Are you scared he wants to suck your dick, or are you scared that you'd like it?"
Yeah I do think there's truth to that as well. Guys scared of things they haven't reconciled with themselves. What's funny with people who have transitioned it's even dumber. Oh no! You are attracted to women. It prob means you're gay or something.