Official Investing Thread

Discussion in 'The Mainboard' started by Joe Louis, Jul 12, 2010.

  1. tmbrules

    tmbrules Make America Great Again!
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  2. NC Wolfpack

    NC Wolfpack Go Pack Go
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    Would you consider an ETF an equity or a bond? Or both?
     
  3. pockets

    pockets Lesser-Known Member
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    Just put every dollar you can into your 401k until you max it out. Then worry about an IRA.
     
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  4. tmbrules

    tmbrules Make America Great Again!
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    There are both equity and bond ETF's

    Did I mess something up?
     
  5. Gallant Knight

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    also you don't really have 17.5k because youll have to pay taxes when you take a draw from your 401k
     
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  6. Jimmy the Saint

    Jimmy the Saint The future is a benevolent black hole
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    He should get himself into a Roth too if that isn't what he's in already.
     
  7. Gallant Knight

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    seems like the general consensus is to put into your 401k whatever your employer will match and then max out a roth if you can.

    i know some folks who just put in 17.5k per year or whatever into their 401k and think they have a bunch of money and i'm like... you do realize that you will have to pay taxes on that shit at some point, right? and half of the time they dont.
     
    #7357 Gallant Knight, Feb 9, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2017
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  8. je ne suis pas ici

    je ne suis pas ici Well-Known Member
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    if you plan on making more money in 30 years than you do now

    get a fucking roth

    fuck you IRS
     
  9. Rabid

    Rabid Fan of: DQ Treats
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    Or if you aren't sure, get a Roth. If nothing else, it provides flexibility of choosing between taking a taxable (from 401k) vs. tax-free distribution (from Roth) and minimizing marginal tax rates.
     
  10. Joystick Izzy

    Joystick Izzy Well-Known Member
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    It looks like others have answered your question about "total market index" vs "s&p index." Honestly, though, the difference between s&P and total market historically is pretty small, so you could treat s&p index like a total market index. Or you could add in some small cap and mid-cap indices as well to make it mimic the market more closely. Bogleheads.org is probably a great place to start doing some reading if you want to learn more about investing and have a general understanding.
     
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  11. Arkadin

    Arkadin inefficiently efficent and unclearly clear
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    For reference on how bad that 1.9% is RJF-GUMP

    Screenshot_2017-02-09-14-54-20.jpg
     
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  12. RJF-GUMP

    RJF-GUMP Daubert Qualified in Cooler Thermodynamics
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    no one likes a one upper arkadin. and i dont think most ppl are getting 20%+ as return
     
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  13. Arkadin

    Arkadin inefficiently efficent and unclearly clear
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    I'm not one upping, I'm giving you a frame of reference. I'm not doing anything special, I'm invested in company stock, two vanguard funds, US large index and US mid/small index. Every single one of those is +20% or more over the last year. She's killing your money with whatever she's doing
     
  14. Rabid

    Rabid Fan of: DQ Treats
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    What do you guys do for healthcare? I've been on a high deductible plan with an HSA since my employer started offering it. The general design is that people use the money for medical expenses in close to real time but you can carry over unused balances to future years. However, I feel like the best way to use these plans is to treat them like a Roth IRA for health care and just keep putting money in them and investing it for later years. I pay my actual health care expenses (not covered by insurance) out of pocket instead of touching my balance that keeps growing. I feel like more people should be talking about these (or I'm just missing it).
     
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  15. Rabid

    Rabid Fan of: DQ Treats
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    I'm in awe of what somebody would have done to get 1.93% in the last year. The S&P 500 is up 24.7% in the last year. Anybody that is 30-ish should have at least 30% allocation to that or something like it. Even if you say it is just a 25% allocation, that should be +6.25% return for the account if the rest was in cash. The current rolling 12-months is more advantageous than calendar 2016 but that still would have been 11.95% (assuming you reinvested dividends) in the S&P which is +3% with a 25% allocation.
     
    #7365 Rabid, Feb 9, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2017
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  16. tmbrules

    tmbrules Make America Great Again!
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    I just have regular health insurance. I don't really know much about a HSA because I believe my accountant told me I would be better off (or equivalent) maxing out my SEP. I think that after maxing out my SEP and then contributing to my kids 529 plans I don't have too much need for a tax free savings account. If you would expand on how you use it as a tool I would be interested to hear about it.
     
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  17. chopcity

    chopcity Well-Known Member
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    An HSA is like a turbocharged Roth. If you have access to do one, do it. It's amazing because when you turn retirement age, you can use those moneys for other things.
     
  18. Lyrtch

    Lyrtch My second favorite meat is hamburger
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    if you are at most our ages, which is sub-35, you should have enough in a broad variety of stocks that at minimum you'd be at 10% over the last 12 months

    team this, everyone should max a roth every year either backdoor or regular based on your income after maximizing tax advantaged options(401k or whatever your employer offers). imo people jump way too quickly into taxable accounts when I suspect the vast majority of this board doesn't take advantage of the tools at their disposal. although if you're fully investing in a 401k you'll likely have to backdoor the roth.
    such as using the HSA as like you said, another tax advantaged plan. read a lot about using the HSA this way
     
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  19. Capstone 88

    Capstone 88 Going hard in the paint
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    I'm throwing some extra in my HSA in hopes to grow it to the point where the interest would pay my premiums later in life.
     
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  20. je ne suis pas ici

    je ne suis pas ici Well-Known Member
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    Probably put him all in chipotle and under armour lmbo

    But yeah youd have to try and get lucky to be that bad
     
  21. Rabid

    Rabid Fan of: DQ Treats
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    First, you have to have a high-deductible plan to use one.
    In summary -- No tax on the money that goes in and no tax on the money that comes out as long as it is used for "qualified medical expenses." Qualified medical expenses are not hard to come by...doctor visits, eye, dentist, surgeries, prescriptions,even some over-the-counter stuff, etc.

    The money in the account belongs to you rather than your employer so if you leave your job you keep it. Max annual contribution is $3350. Once you have more than $1k in the account you can invest the excess in mutual funds.

    That about sums it up. I've been doing it for 5-6 years so it is enough to start caring how the investments are allocated.
     
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  22. Bo Pelinis

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    You should prob be paying your health care expenses with those funds because that's pre-tax money (or deductible) right? Do you think you will get a return that is greater than your marginal tax rate?
     
    #7372 Bo Pelinis, Feb 9, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2017
  23. Bo Pelinis

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    Do you have your son or wife on your plan? It's $6,750 for a family. I got a tax estimate from my accountant last year and was like hell no, fuck that, so I ended up contributing like $3,500 into my HSA since I hadn't maxed to the family amount (and two traditional IRAs as well but we were already into a phase out so it wasn't that much).

    Turned an $1,800 tax bill into a $1,300 return by moving a little money around.
     
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  24. Wywan Bwowna

    Wywan Bwowna Wywan Bwowna
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    Where can I get a general list of "qualified medical expenses?" Just started a high deductible HSA plan. I'm only 26, so I don't have a ton of medical expenses right now. Want to use it for everything that I can.
     
  25. Bo Pelinis

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    https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p502.pdf
     
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  26. Wywan Bwowna

    Wywan Bwowna Wywan Bwowna
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  27. Wywan Bwowna

    Wywan Bwowna Wywan Bwowna
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    Also, Im surprised at how much is on that list. I have one question though. What happens if I try to use my HSA card for a non-"qualifying medical expense?" Will it get rejected? Or will the IRS be on my ass at the end of the year?
     
  28. Nantucket

    Nantucket Northeastern Elitism+Alabama Downhome Sensibility
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    You can use it for whatever you want, but it's on you to properly report that spending to the IRS and pay taxes on it accordingly.
     
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  29. Nantucket

    Nantucket Northeastern Elitism+Alabama Downhome Sensibility
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    As part of my current healthcare plan, my employer makes a quarterly contribution into my HSA. Which is pretty boss since I'm still young and healthy (~BLeSSeD~).
     
  30. Rabid

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    You get the deduction just by putting it in the account. Since it is no tax in/no tax out, it is more do you expect your capital gains to be a positive number and if so, you're better putting it in a tax deferred account (assuming you can afford to pay the medical expenses out of pocket).

    No. My wife and son are on her plan (which is not high deductible). I have like $100-200 in annual medical expenses so it works particularly well.
     
  31. M'ark Pepperonio

    M'ark Pepperonio Free mahi mahi! Free mahi mahi!
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    Correct. I max mine out and pay out of pocket for medical expenses. This will pay for my health care after retirement of be no worse off tax wise than 401k.
     
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  32. RJF-GUMP

    RJF-GUMP Daubert Qualified in Cooler Thermodynamics
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    help me decipher a few things from a recent article on emerging economies:

    -"South Africa's central bank has also stuck to its inflation mandate in the face of a slowing economy and weaker rand." I'm guessing they are lauding inflation even in the face of a slowing economy because inflation drives up the cost of goods and services which actually helps the overall industry and business of the nation in terms of their bottom line? It might suck for the consumer but its good for business.

    -"Despite a brutal recession, Brazil's central bank has also concentrated on pulling inflation back towards its goal of 4.5%; the country is getting to grips with the fiscal laxity which is the source of much of its economic misery. With interest rates at 13% there is ample room to ease a monetary policy." Some juggsian research shows me that Brazil's inflation rate in 2016 was around 9%. Our goal rate is 2% in the US. So apparently the cost of goods and what not in Brazil are way high due to inflation which might be good for industry but is bad for the consumer and real wages. So they want to bring that down to help the working class afford the cost of living. And they're saying at 13% interest rate they have room to get the interest rate way down which would bring down inflation rates and help the average consumer.
     
  33. je ne suis pas ici

    je ne suis pas ici Well-Known Member
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    Gump, you really need to cut down on the adderall and just pick a basket of etfs and hush
     
  34. RJF-GUMP

    RJF-GUMP Daubert Qualified in Cooler Thermodynamics
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    fuck off. i was reading the economist this has nothing to do with investing for me. i generally enjoy finance and economics and was asking legit questions. i wasn't going to try and invest in emerging markets based off something i found out with those questions.
     
  35. tmbrules

    tmbrules Make America Great Again!
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    Where is the best place to open a HSA? Through my regular broker?
    Rabid
    Bo Pelinis
     
  36. allothersnsused

    allothersnsused Wow that’s crazy
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    I think it has to be offered through your plan but I could be wrong.
     
  37. tmbrules

    tmbrules Make America Great Again!
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    Through my insurance plan?
     
  38. Jimmy the Saint

    Jimmy the Saint The future is a benevolent black hole
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    Calm down. Nothing wrong with holding a solid emerging markets ETF. :twocents:
     
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  39. Rabid

    Rabid Fan of: DQ Treats
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    I think it has to be administered by your employer and in concert with a high-deductible insurance plan. I'm not sure what options somebody that is self employed would have for one.
     
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  40. Jimmy the Saint

    Jimmy the Saint The future is a benevolent black hole
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    Self-employed individuals can have them for sure. I'm not sure what route you need to go to open one though.
     
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  41. tmbrules

    tmbrules Make America Great Again!
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    Thanks i'll inquire. Think it could be helpful for me. Thanks guys :beerchug:
     
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  42. LeonardWashington

    LeonardWashington Leader of Tuanon
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    tmbrules Pretty sure Wells Fargo offers HSAs, but not 100% on that
     
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  43. tmbrules

    tmbrules Make America Great Again!
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    I'll give it a shot for the sake of discussion. Not my specialty though so others might have better input. Discussion in bold.
     
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  44. Bo Pelinis

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    I didn't get this tag. The health plan is usually through an employer but the actual account is either set up through your employer or you go set it up at a bank yourself. Just check and see if your bank has that account option or if there's a better option elsewhere. I'm sure most banks have them.
     
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  45. WillySaliba

    WillySaliba Well-Known Member
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    RJF-GUMP Other item to remember, emerging economies, by in large, are emerging because of the population potential of their market. So keep in mind that all those nations are still absolute dumpster fires in terms of poverty, corruption, taxes, infrastructure, labor force, etc...... Just realize they are not truly a free market, they are "developing". Brazil and Russia both have huge corruption challenges and poverty. Then think about your inflation question as it relates to interest rates, then realize you are talking about a relatively small sustained middle class (without a track record) here. So who is really borrowing more money? The rich already have money then a possible 25% of the nation has no collateral because they live below the poverty line. China manipulates their currency which leads to all sorts of interesting questions. India is extremely bureaucratic from getting a business license, paying taxes and people have a hard time even getting electricity and also extreme poverty. That's about 65-70% of the world's population right there.

    Point is, even domestically some of these questions you could literally read volumes on theory and practice. Same principle with the Japanese example, that's an extremely solid economy as well.
     
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  46. je ne suis pas ici

    je ne suis pas ici Well-Known Member
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    nah dude he reads the economist, he is gonna get the next big thing outta brazil and make everyone else look like chumps
     
  47. Nantucket

    Nantucket Northeastern Elitism+Alabama Downhome Sensibility
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    Highly recommend that you read The Boglehead's Guide to Investing based on some of the earlier questions you were asking
     
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  48. Gallant Knight

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    brazil is a fucking dumpster fire.

    know a lot of guys who lost a lot of money in PBR because herp derp emerging markets.
     
  49. Bo Pelinis

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    Is that Pabst Blue Ribbon or Professional Bull Riding?
     
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  50. Gallant Knight

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    neither is big in brazil