Re: oac001's Yahoo TMB 2nd Year Keeper League Then how do know the value of guys for trades months before the end of the year? How about when a player is traded?
Re: oac001's Yahoo TMB 2nd Year Keeper League Hmmm...not sure how we do something after the league starts without voting or having real discussion on it. What was decided in regards to trades? If a player has an average draft position of 12.4, but that is the #10 player if you sorted by average draft position is a first rounder? What if he is still the #10 player, but his adp is 13.1?
Re: oac001's Yahoo TMB 2nd Year Keeper League if you had paid any attention to the league prior to the last few weeks, you would know the answers to all these questions. players traded maintain their draft spots and we're going strictly by ADP.
Re: oac001's Yahoo TMB 2nd Year Keeper League What the fuck are you talking about? I didn't know the thread was going (the one you have linked in the commish note leads to something else) but was active with my team. Hell I probably was 2nd in posts in the pre-draft thread behind you. I was there for the draft and the discussion about what should be done, but nothing was ever finalized. At that point I made my feelings known that you don't change things like that after a year without complete agreement with a vote. You certainly don't do it and then never put it on the league page. So again is ADP the only determining factor if a player is kept for more than a year? What if the round attached to them is earlier? What about my question in regards to ADP and actual rank? Where would players fall then? How about the fact that we have 2 more categories and are in a keeper league, so the ADP would be different value for us vs. the regular yahoo league?
Re: oac001's Yahoo TMB 2nd Year Keeper League yeah that was the link for this thread before the server meltdown, which apparently you never visited because otherwise you would know. and you're the only one who doesn't know whats going on here so that's your problem.
Re: oac001's Yahoo TMB 2nd Year Keeper League Umm as I said I posted in the thread a lot. Nothing was ever finalized. That is why it was still even being discussed during the draft. You posted earlier I didn't pay attention until a couple weeks ago which is also 100% wrong. You just are off the wall man. Just as there was never a precedent for trade review this was never finalized. I think you just kind of like to decide as you go and never finalize things. Certainly at a minimum the rules and settings have to be on the team page. So that is everyone knowing? Interesting. I didn't even bring it up.
Re: oac001's Yahoo TMB 2nd Year Keeper League lol stinky came up with the idea for ADP since that was how his other keeper league was run. w2d is essentially the assistant commish and he knows we're going by ADP, which is what his quote said but apparently you can't read. everything was in the league thread before the meltdown. not my fault chan's server burned up.
Re: oac001's Yahoo TMB 2nd Year Keeper League this is one part i wanted to clear up. ADP will only be for players kept beyond one year correct? and first year keepers will maintain their slot from our draft this season?
Re: oac001's Yahoo TMB 2nd Year Keeper League The point is that everyone did not know because nothing was ever finalized. Even more exemplified by: Thus he wasn't sure despite being "essentially the assistant commish"... So again things had never been finalized. It was just discussed. As I said. Of course we can't go back and look because the thread is gone (certainly not your or anyone elses fault) but also you never put anything on the league page or even posted that information here again. You can't run a league where people are supposed to guess/remember how things will work. Especially in a keeper league when you may have to change owners sometimes.
Re: oac001's Yahoo TMB 2nd Year Keeper League just wanted to clarify because of the "strictly by ADP" phrase that oac used earlier.
Re: oac001's Yahoo TMB 2nd Year Keeper League I can understand the need to clarify since it was never finalized and isn't anywhere for everyone to know and access.
Re: oac001's Yahoo TMB 2nd Year Keeper League there's a difference between clarifying (w2d and pretty much everyone else) and having no idea (jpripper) apparently you missed the "strictly by ADP" part. lemme spell it out for you: 1-12.4 = 1st round, 12.5-24.4 = 2nd round, etc.
Re: oac001's Yahoo TMB 2nd Year Keeper League Ok, so to make sure I have this right in my head (and the reason its so important is that I'm trying to figure out who I can drop that's currently on my DL)... 1. If a player is kept by the same team for multiple years (meaning keeping the same player for year 2 and then again next season for year 3), then the draft pick compensation is equal to the ADP for the coming season's (year 3) draft. 2. If a player was kept by team A in year 2 (the year we're in right now) and then traded to team B during year 2, team B can keep that player for year 3 at the same draft slot that Team A kept him in for year 2? Is that right? Not a big fan of part 2....too much of a chance of two teams colluding together to trade their keepers to each other
Re: oac001's Yahoo TMB 2nd Year Keeper League well for 1st year keepers, we went with the previous year's ADP. so if you were to keep the same player for year 3, then we'd go with his year 2 ADP. no. if a keeper is traded, the same rules apply. in this case, team B can keep that player for year 3 at year 2's ADP. so let's say I want to keep Ubaldo for next year. I got him as a FA in 2009, kept him as my 24th round pick in 2010, his ADP was 77.2 in 2010, so I'd keep him as my 7th round pick for 2011.
Re: oac001's Yahoo TMB 2nd Year Keeper League OK I'm confused by the # of games we can use guy. I've been sitting my 2B and SS so I can re-gain some games played, but it doesn't seem to be dropping at all?
Re: oac001's Yahoo TMB 2nd Year Keeper League well the # of games for position players really don't matter that much, most people worry about the innings pitched limit. and you're doing it wrong. you're projected to be under for all the hitters and 42.2 IP over the limit.
Re: oac001's Yahoo TMB 2nd Year Keeper League I figured the red meant I was in danger, and the green was opposite.
Re: oac001's Yahoo TMB 2nd Year Keeper League Ok that's better, that's what I was hoping it was and became confused.
Re: oac001's Yahoo TMB 2nd Year Keeper League Quick thought..how are we going to look at last (this) year's ADP next pre-season? Someone needs to save the current ADPs now.
Re: oac001's Yahoo TMB 2nd Year Keeper League already done. i can email you the excel file if you want.
Re: oac001's Yahoo TMB 2nd Year Keeper League Nah it just was never finalized and certainly was not all laid out as far as trades and exact ADP value or rank. Obviously will greatly affect things for a lot of folks. This stuff should be posted on the league page as well, so it is easily accessible for everyone all the time and there is no risk of ever losing. Not a link to a thread where it is just discussed. I still don't like it being just like this because there are obvious differences for us in terms of stats and keeper value that cause a player to be pick much earlier or much later than his Yahoo! ADP.
Re: oac001's Yahoo TMB 2nd Year Keeper League some of the rules (like using ADP) were finalized in version 1 of this thread. some people just have bad memories or didn't ever read that thread thoroughly. okay... what would you do?
Re: oac001's Yahoo TMB 2nd Year Keeper League or since yahoo ADP is 2 clicks away from the league homepage you could've looked yourself. i have a master copy in case anyone forgets or there is a dispute but owners should be able to find this stuff themselves.
Re: oac001's Yahoo TMB 2nd Year Keeper League I meant more for excel purposes. Definitely the way I prefer to look at something like that. I would probably cut the round value by a percentage for each year you keep the player or ADP whichever ends up lower. Ex. use 2/3 or 66%, so a player like Joey Votto, is worth a 6th round value this year instead of a 9th or a 3rd with ADP. Otherwise sleeper late picks for teams rebuilding or people that just recognize rising value early in the league (like your Ubaldo pickup) only get one real good value year. This way they would still have a lot of value in those guys, but they aren't ridiculous. Thats how I have done it with football before and especially in baseball since ADP is off when you factor in keepers and other categories.
Re: oac001's Yahoo TMB 2nd Year Keeper League I'd like to make a move, I don't really know WHAT move, but something. Don't have any "untouchables" per say, but obviously some will be more difficult to get
Re: oac001's Yahoo TMB 2nd Year Keeper League I'm last on the waiver priority (and have been for all season, for some reason). Apparently I was the only one who put in a claim on him, which is crazy.
Re: oac001's Yahoo TMB 2nd Year Keeper League Nah you aren't it and it has been changing. I definitely put one in on him, but I was 12th because I just grabbed Aaron Hill hoping he bounces back and becomes a steal as a 24th. I didn't think there was a chance someone dropped a player like that potentially just handing an opponent a stud 24th rounder.
Re: oac001's Yahoo TMB 2nd Year Keeper League Not if he is released. That was just if a manager kept him for a 2nd year or he was kept one year, traded and then kept again by the team acquiring him via trade. Players released go into the player pool and for keeper purposes are reset. I was shocked that eho was the highest waiver priority to claim him. I thought for sure that Stinky just gave an insane keeper value to the best team in the league. Really regretting putting in my Aaron Hill claim (did it for the same reasons) now because I would have gotten Morales. I didn't think someone like that would get released though.
Re: oac001's Yahoo TMB 2nd Year Keeper League maybe i'm remembering wrong but i'm pretty sure that is incorrect. guys who were originally drafted last season, dropped, picked up and were selected as keepers were slotted under their original draft round IIRC from helping oac set up the draft.
Re: oac001's Yahoo TMB 2nd Year Keeper League Well I have seen nothing state as far as the rules, so people are basically operating blind and I guess supposed to just remember or guess. Even in this thread it was only stated that if someone kept for multiple years or a player was traded would ADP be their keeper value. If a player is dropped they should no way still be subject to be bound by their previous owner's actions (i.e. keeping them) just like if someone drops a non kept player their round reverts to 24th round value and not the round they were drafted in at the beginning of the season. Anything else would be absolutely ridiculous. This is a perfect example though of rules not being stated or clear. Even since the keeper discussion started oac has not responded again or posted rules here or on the league page, so that they are clear and not lost. These kind of issues shouldn't even be in question. No one should have to remember anything. You can't have a multi year league without keeping rules accessible.
Re: oac001's Yahoo TMB 2nd Year Keeper League after looking at the previous years draft it looks like i misremembered. but oac can clear that up for certain. on me for not using that #1 waiver in that case.
Re: oac001's Yahoo TMB 2nd Year Keeper League I was shocked to say the least. I didn't post anything on it and was hoping that just people wouldn't notice or like you not be clear on the rules and think it wouldn't help them any. Definitely need this stuff 100% clear and posted on the league page and here. Even the asst commish (by oac's own admission) wasn't sure on the rules.
Re: oac001's Yahoo TMB 2nd Year Keeper League No, he should be a 4th round keeper, that's why I released him. If they were kept the year before they get their ADP from this year for next year's draft.
Re: oac001's Yahoo TMB 2nd Year Keeper League And quite honestly, if he's not a 4th round keeper (which would be common fucking sense), then I'm out of this league.
Re: oac001's Yahoo TMB 2nd Year Keeper League I am not sure how it would be common sense that he would still be treated as a 2nd year kept player when his rights were released. If he would have stayed on your squad or been traded he would have stayed a 4th round keeper. I would completely understand leaving though. Things certainly are not clear in this league. I am not sure how you even start a keeper league without setting keeper rules before you start. Especially without ever posting them.
Re: oac001's Yahoo TMB 2nd Year Keeper League http://baseball.fantasysports.yahoo.com/archive/mlb/2009/30972/message?msgid=72
Re: oac001's Yahoo TMB 2nd Year Keeper League Right, so a FA or waiver wire pickup, no matter if he was kept the previous year counts as a 24th round keeper. Even though it is not specifically addressed there (mainly because a decision about 2nd+ time keeper rules had not been established) that is what makes the most sense and the most reasonably respected. However, it definitely is not addressed directly there, so I can understand how Stinky got confused because of this thread and the fact that a rule is not stated in regards to released players that were kept the previous year.
Re: oac001's Yahoo TMB 2nd Year Keeper League apparently they dont teach reading comprehension at Bama
Re: oac001's Yahoo TMB 2nd Year Keeper League Two things with that. 1. That was posted before ADP for 2nd+ year keepers was even discussed, so it would be interesting that you think what you posted directly addressed how it would work regarding players that were kept a previous year. It does not. It is the most logical conclusion for me, but it is not specifically or directly addressed, as I posted. 2. Obviously it is not clear if Stinky didn't understand that and even w2d couldn't "remember". I know you have gotten all pissy with me because I called you out on not doing a good job evaluating the trade between me and Trofie, but trying to sell this like I haven't been paying attention or am the only one that isn't clear on the rules is just blatantly wrong. Things (like ADP and all other rules affecting that, such as the one at issue here) were never finalized and they (at least even the discussion) are not accessible. It is causing confusion for even your "assistant commish".
Re: oac001's Yahoo TMB 2nd Year Keeper League everything you mentioned on this page has referred to Stinky's dropping of Morales. doesn't matter how the player got on the waiver wire, the same rules apply. lol that conversion was between me and w2d in our league last year, which you were a part of. everyone has access to that conversion, but apparently its my fault if they don't read it carefully? again, i wasn't the only one who thought the trade was ridiculous. just go back and read the previous pages. plus, you were given the opportunity to made the trade happen because i didn't want to deal with your incessant bitching but you rejected the trade so who's fault is that. and I find it interesting how you start complaining during your 2nd year. we tried to set all the rules during the first year, and if you look at our conversions on the yahoo homepage, rules were set.
Re: oac001's Yahoo TMB 2nd Year Keeper League I asked about this very thing in painful detail. If you didn't know, it's because you didn't pay attention. The only reason I picked him up was because he would be a 24th rounder. I knew it ahead of time because I previously asked about it.
Re: oac001's Yahoo TMB 2nd Year Keeper League No it does not address if the situation is in regards to a player that was kept the previous year. I didn't say that people couldn't access what you said in a conversation, but they could not access anything addressing it specifically or which are finalized. I am yet to see anything directly addressing it after you said, in this thread: in response to this question: So you have a conversation from before the ADP "rule" was discussed and that is supposed to address situations after you put that rule in place? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Where is that? I don't have a problem with this rule because I assumed it was the case, but I do feel for Stinky because the rule certainly isn't in here, on the current league page or on the previous year page.
Re: oac001's Yahoo TMB 2nd Year Keeper League It must've been lost in the crash, because I really asked about a million questions about it. Still, I don't understand how there's any question about the sentence "f you want to keep someone you picked up off the waiver wire, then that'll count as your last round pick." I don't think there is any legitimate way you could interpret that sentence as meaning that a keeper on the waiver wire keeps his previous year's selection value. However, even if that was unclear, the line "Email me if you have any questions" is crystal clear.
Re: oac001's Yahoo TMB 2nd Year Keeper League Well but the issue is, that was from before ADP was even broached. If we use that as our reference then it also says nothing about ADP and just talks about keeper value being tied to the round you selected them in.