A lot of the people who have carried out these attacks wouldn't stand a chance of scoring a gun on the black market (if they were banned). I have a tough enough time trying to find a decent gram of coke on a Saturday night, let alone an assault rifle.
So basically nothing can be done, so we shouldn't try to do anything, even though we're the only country in the world that has this problem to this scale? So should we not have doctors because disease still happens? Should we not have border security because illegal immigration will happen regardless? Should we not have security at airports and sporting events because terrorism is going to happen? Should we stop the war on drugs because people still do cocaine anyway? And the "oh they'll just make bombs anyway" is not a good point. It's a lot harder (and more dangerous) to make bombs rather than to take a rifle and start firing. You have to figure out how to make a bomb in the first place, purchase the necessary equipment, make the bomb (while risking blowing off an appendage or two) and then put the bombs in places to do damage without them going off on you and damaging you first. With a gun you load and shoot. Just sayin'.
Mass shooters don't get guns on the black market. They get guns legally. Using the black market rather than going into a sporting goods store in Anytown, USA, makes the venture a hell of a lot more difficult and expensive. Plus, you have to figure out how to access the black market. They don't exactly have a page on Yelp!
Another if people want a gun they’ll find a way. Because every white hs kid can just mosey on down to their local blackmarket and get an AR with their bitcoins. Fuck outta here with that tired horseshit point.
What I am conveying is that if a person wants to do an evil act and is willing to die to achieve it, there isn't much to stop them. Take away guns, will find something else if they cant obtain them on the black market. Run over people in a crowd standing around after school with a car. Bombs-am sure there are instructions somewhere on internet. We can take measures to help prevent more mass killings, but it isnt going to stop them. If Sandy Hook didn't bring about change, nothing will. This is the same as every other mass shooting. Cycle is mass shooting then Thoughts and prayers rolls into gun debate then people forget rolls into another mass shooting.
Sandy Hook didn't bring about change because the government refuses to change anything. How are things supposed to change if the laws stay the same? Nothing can be 100 percent prevented, but if making things harder for evil-doers prevents a couple of these, it's worth it, no? And I'm sorry, I think a lot of these teens that do stuff like this do it because it's relatively easy to pull it off. Adding a few obstacles would be a deterrent to many. And if it's a deterrent to a few, then that's a net positive.
So what's the explanation for the much higher murder rate in the USA compared to the rest of the developed world, coincidence?
Why do people talk about “black markets” like they’re a fucking 7-11. Most of these kids comitting these acts would either a. Get robbed b. Get killed c. Both if they went around trying to get a gun off the streets
For just about any other situation we’d at least attempt to fix the issue. Why not with this one? Why just throw up our hands and say fuck it.
Im honestly not trying to be that way. Yes, we can/should take measures to try to cut down the ways these psychos can get their hands on guns. It's absolutley saddening and terrifying. I'm all for a lot of solutions said in this thread. But, also have to be realistic. Guns arent going away, and never will. Unless we turn every school into a police state shootimgs wont stop.
Big Ern McCracken settle the fuck down Arming teachers is a horrid idea (I’m a gun owning teacher) You work with chuds who can’t work a copier machine, a projector, and you want to arm them?
We're not talking about banning all guns. We're talking about banning assault rifles that have no purpose except destruction and making gun ownership more expensive. Not all of them will be prevented, but making it more difficult will truly prevent some. You can't get from 0 to 100 right away, but going from 0 to 15 right now would be progress. Then we can go from 15 to 30, and so on and so forth. This is an issue that will take a while to combat, but we need to start taking a step forward. For some reason you seem to be against that.
I was going to post something about how every country has "mentally ill" people, yet only the "mentally ill" people in our country are the ones that commit this sort of violence, but then I got to thinking: 1. This country elected a reality TV show star who is a pathological liar, a bigot and a sexual harasser with early on-set dementia to be our president. 2. There are people in this country who think that turning every classroom into a potential "Call of Duty" battleground scene is preferable to common-sense gun legislation and 3. There are people in country who think an imaginary man in the sky will magically fix everything in the world -- and these are the people who are considered somewhat "sane." Maybe our mentally ill are just way the more fucked up than everyone else.
Yeah it’s a weird point to make in a school shooting thread. Would make more since for thousands of other murders that take place every year.
Most schools never have to worry about being shot up by a mad gunman, but to prevent that statistically incredibly remote instance, we are going to make every school teacher carry? How many accidental firings or rage firings or stolen guns used as weapons are we going to add to the total for the mere hope is minimizing a shouter’s death count? Not eliminating the shooting altogether. What we are talking about with arming teachers is merely minimizing the damage - in the best possible case. But that comes with all the unintended downsides listed above. Statistically it doesn’t even make sense. It’s just dumb. The problem is too many guns - not not enough guns.
If we can somehow turn an A+ rating from the NRA into a scarlet letter this election cycle, that would be the best news for America.
Also, go fuck yourself Big Ern McCracken you unfeeling moronic carnage loving piece of shit. The problem is the availability of guns for people that want to do sick shit. Hamper that availability and things get better. There aren’t 17 dead if he walked into that school with a knife. There aren’t 17 dead if he walked into that school with a baseball bat. The sole reason there are 17 dead is because this country allowed him to have access to a high powered people killing machine. That is the problem. Period. Fuck you if you can’t see that by now, asshole. And eat shit Merica if you have a problem with me calling him an asshole.
The sauling from people itt is sad. Gun control needs to happen, but it’s going to be hard and take lots of work, might as well not even try.
It really is the most anti-American sentiment for this issue. This country was not built by people saying "fuck it," curling into the fetal position and eating Arby's. Though that's appropriate imagery for where many of us are at.
For being a realist about topic? You can call me any name you like if that makes you feel better. Doesn't change the fact that NOTHING will come of this from a gun reform standpoint. It hasn't after countless school shooting incidents. Is that right? No, it isn't. Actually, it is reprehensible. It's very sad that this is who we are as a society and profits from gun sales means more than people's lives.
You came into this thread talking about arming teachers and how gun control wouldn't work because "people are going to get them on the black market" anyway. If that wasn't your intention, that's how your posting came off.
It is the attitude of “nothing will change” that allows nothing to change. If you are actually outraged, then demand change. That’s the only way it ever happens. Fuck the NRA’s interpretation of the second amendment. That isn’t America. That’s just more dead children. Take a fucking stand. This matters.
Sorry wasnt trying to get everypne riled up. Do I think we should try every measure we can to stop this shit? Yes, without a doubt in my mind. How do we do that? I dont know. Metal detectors in every school, extra resource officers, profiles on these type of kids, etc. I'm not a pro gun guy, don't even own one. Dont think guns should be banned, but do not see the point of having any kind of assualt rifle be available to the public. Do I think there will always be fucked up kids that commit acts of violence either with or without means to a gun? Yes. Evil has been around since beginning of mankind.
What we need to do is make it more difficult for potential shooters to get these weapons in the first place. That's the root of the problem. Metal detectors and resource officers are cosmetic solutions -- it's putting lipstick on a pig. The root problem is easy access to assault rifles and guns of that ilk. You make that harder and then you don't need the cosmetic touchups that don't really do much of anything. Is that going to be hard? Yes, extremely. The NRA has politicians in their back pocket and has been buying their inactivity for years. The way to do that is to disrupt their power. Vote out politicians that are bought out by the NRA, make the NRA a scarlet letter, as another poster remarked earlier, until they are willing to compromise. We don't need to get rid of all guns, but unless you're in law enforcement and military there's absolutely no reason for you to own an AR-15 or any weapon of that ilk. Thoughts and prayers and cosmetic solutions have been ineffective. You have to go to the source.
I might have misinterpreted Big Ern, but I thought he was more making a defeatist statement than a pro gun argument.
Eventually yes, but he came in sounding more like the latter than the former. The "they're just going to get them on the black market anyway" is something pro-gun people tend to say.
Where I am coming from with my tangent is that if you take guns out of the hands of a person that is going to inflict harm on a mass amount of innocent people, they will go to other measures to insert harm to said same mass of people without guns. Yes, I do feel defeated. I am around teenagers all day long and care about these kids. Want them to be as safe as possible. In no way am I some gun nut, but after Sandy Hook if no change occured, why would a high school in FLA (yes its a tragedy and I am not trying to downplay this horrific event at all just comparing the 2) make everyone change? That's the point I'm missing. If 20 kids between 6-7 were killed and that didn't drive change, what will? One thing I have noticed in schools is the parents. Not sure if this is an issue or not, but myself and a buddy of mine think so. Majority of parents in my district (upper-middle class, predominately white) are either acting as their kids best friend instead of a parent or not around/Don't care.
there was a good twitter thread on the uselessness on the fatalism argument most of us logical people make when there are mass shootings