How did they retcon Gabriel's backstory? This is the first M:I movie he's in, right? I'm afraid that the next movie is going to be almost entirely about Ethan. The voice over at the end talking about how Ethan is all alone and the world is counting on him leads me guess that part 2 isn't going to have as much Hayley Atwell and will mostly be Cruise doing Cruise things. I don't think we have to keep talking in spoilers given that the movie has been out almost a week at this point.
I think she'll still be in the second one at least a little just because I don't think they can make a 2.5 hour Tom Cruise only movie at this point. Someone else has to be in it doing something. I would just be kind of surprised if she's working much with Cruise based on how this one ended.
“The ending didnt tie up things like every other MI movie” I guess you got upset at Across the Spiderverse too
movies can announce they are two parters (which is a common thing to do with big franchise films), but that doesn't mean you have to ignore how it impacts the film
Dune didn't have 6 prior movies before it that had established an understanding of how each one ended.
All 6 pervious movies were standalones while this one is clearly labeled at part 1 of a 2 part movie.
about how it ended. doesn't mean it doesn't diminish the quality of the movie in comparison to the rest the lowest Harry Potter movie on RTs is book 7, part one you can anticipate and still walk away not liking that it played out that way or that it impacted the story telling and execution of the film
In its most basic form, a retcon is any plot point or detail that was not intended from the beginning, but treated as if it always had been all of a sudden in this movie, we learn about how Ethan got into IMF despite it never coming up in the prior movies. And now we have to grapple with the new plot point detailing the loss of this woman and Gabriel's motivations then and now. it is absolutely a retcon
Spiderverse is a bad example bc it's actually a movie about Gwen and her arc is completed at the end now this is actually the right take, even though I know it's sarcastic I could also argue that Dead Reckoning part 1 is a haley atwell origins story and by the end she is initiated so it does have a complete arc as well
And this movie was about Grace’s arc and how it ended and her finally finding a “family” since being an orphan and being a nomad and much like ATS the part 2 will be much more about Ethan/Miles and going up against the bigger bad
It’s about time we got a new female team member. Emmanuel Baert -> Thandiwe Newton -> Michele Monaghan -> Paula Patton -> Rebecca Ferguson -> Hayley Atwell
Fair enough. I guess I view retconning something as changing details of the past story in order to make the current story work. I just don't really see this new information as something that changes Ethan from the first six movies, but I guess the full story hasn't been told yet in this regard and I might feel different when they fill in more blanks in part 2. I view what they did to Ilsa in this movie as more of a retcon of previous films and even in this one based on some of the interview stuff I've read from the cast that makes no sense.
my bigger issue with it is not really them going back to add this detail in, but making it central to the finale of this version of the franchise. If it was a smaller detail and not the basis of the drama between Ethan and Gabriel, I'd be unbothered.
I can see that. My current take on it is I think Gabriel killing the woman makes it central to their conflict, and the "it led to THE CHOICE" thing was more a convenient way to connect Ethan's story with Grace's story in this movie than something that will play much of a role in part 2 or the previous six movies. I could be dead wrong and will have to change my mind on that whenever the next one comes out, but that's where I'm thinking currently. I agree with you that I don't think it was a strong part of this movie. Just kind of a weird and ambiguous one, like most plot points in this series. That stuff is generally not something they do particularly well. Especially when it comes to Ethan.
"the woman" is another part that irks me. we don't know who it is and if they are holding it back for a reveal in the next movie, I don't think it'll land. you know what was awesome in this movie? Pretty much every action sequence. from the desert, to car chase, the airport, to the amazing dueling fight scenes in Venice ending on the small bridge, and the train. so good. I am glad Rebecca is purportedly dead because Hayley Atwell, Rebecca Ferguson, Pom Klementieff, and Vanessa Kirby are just too many stunning women to have in a franchise at once.
I agree with you on "the woman". Especially after the ridiculous scene in Fallout where Luther tells Ilsa to go home instead of save the world because Ethan has only had feelings for her and his ex-wife and he can't have feelings for her and save the world at the same time. That would be a retcon that makes that scene even dumber in hindsight. But how dare you on the last paragraph.
I heard Glen Close read for Grace in this movie and they gave it to Hayley Atwell instead. Hollywood pigs.
The main thing I learned from that future Pulitzer winner is that Atwell is older than Ferguson and I would not have guessed that. Not really sure why, other than Atwell being 41 just seems incorrect for some reason.
I enjoyed it for Cruise and it being a MI movie. Would rank it behind the last few MI movies respectively. Don't like the AI path, think it's contrived and messy. Tired of the fighting on top of a train trope. Cringed when Ethan happened to land in/through the train right at the perfect moment to save Grace or Gabriel not having a mangled body in the truck bed. Action scenes were mostly great, hand to hand combat was a bit too choreographed. Atwell was a treat.
Reading this thread I feel like I am the only person that liked the 'entity' as a villain. The first scene was excellent, I thought the reveal at the club sequence that it was hosted by the AI was fun as well. If you think more than like one step or two steps ahead logically of course it becomes less interesting but I am not exactly watching MI movies for logical consistency and a villain that can effectively nerf a lot of the tech Ethan works with is a fun idea
I know I'm late to the party, but I only just saw it this afternoon. And it was outstanding. About 15 mins in, I thought "I wonder how much I'll enjoy this" and then in walked Hayley. Her chemistry with Cruise was off the charts and there were so many LOL moments in the first half. No, the Entity isn't the greatest antagonist ever but, you know, who cares? It serves a purpose and ramps up the threat level appropriately. And Gabriel's there as a defacto big bad if you need. As good as 5 & 6 were - and they were very good - I think this is my favourite. It was such fun. And I can't think of a movie with as many great female characters in a long time.
5, 6, and 7 have been awesome. really looking forward to part 2. hoping we dont have to wait 5 years for it.
I also got this on digital last night and watched it. And in spite of my repeated significant issues with some parts of this movie, it's still at least a 7.5 or 8 out of 10 because it's just awesome at so many things. My only new thought that was remotely negative about it last night is the cops chasing him the whole movie are dumb and pointless and I think the movie probably would have been better without them in it at all.
I didn't really care about it until they're standing on the out of control train telling Ethan not to kill Gabriel for some reason and it just felt like that entire situation could have worked a lot better if that didn't happen. Especially after Luther gave Ethan the talk about how he can't kill Gabriel. From a character standpoint, seems like it would have made more sense for Ethan to have to make that choice on his own.