Forgot which TMBer this is, but I feel like this bit at 2:40 is very apropos for the current discussion
I feel like Felix is still underrated somehow if we're talking about current players. No one talks about him much because he plays in Seattle. 50 career fWAR and he just turned 29.
I always wonder how this discussion changes if the guys who served in WWII get those years back. Bob Feller lost four seasons to WWII. He went: 24-9 2.85 in 1939 27-11 2.61 in 1940 25-13 3.15 in 1941 Finished top-3 overall in the MVP voting each year. He returned and went: 26-15 2.18 in 1946 20-11 2.68 in 1947 Then he dropped off statistically, with a few great years sprinkled with some mediocre ones. He led the AL in strikeouts in the 4 seasons before he left for WWII and the first 3 seasons he returned.
Koufax was great, but I think you also have to factor that he put up his best seasons were after MLB experimented with a rule change for an expanded strike zone from 1963-1968. After 1968, the strike zone was restored to pre-1963 dimensions and the pitcher's mound was lowered from 15 inches to 10 inches. It's why you have a 30 game winner like Denny McClain or an ERA like Bob Gibson in 1968. Koufax has to be considered in that context because he is in the Hall of Fame largely because of what he did from 1963-1966.
I always say the same about Ted. He missed three seasons serving. The two seasons before before were .406/37/120 and .356/36/137, the two after were .342/38/123, .343/32/114. Won 1 MVP and finished 2nd the other 3. If you give him the average of all that for those 3 seasons, he'd be #7 in HR and #3 in RBIs.
Musial and Aaron had the best combination of hitting for average and power as any players in history.
Nolan Ryan in my opinion is Brett Favre. Nearly unmatched longevity and durability with unbelievable physical tools. When those tools were all working well at the same time, they'd come up with some truly legendary performances. However, both had a bit of "cowboy" in them and were prone to making mistakes because they had too much reliance on their pure physical tools. Ryan leads all pitchers in strikeouts and walks, while Favre led in TD passes for a bit before being passed by Peyton last season and leads in interceptions. Both are great players and all-timers, but they fucked up just enough to where they wouldn't be one of the top 5 picks at their position in history.
Is it crazy to say Gehrig is underrated? He's remembered more for ALS and being Ruth's Pippen, not for having the 4th highest OPS+ ever. Dude was incredible. Also Jimmie Foxx is criminally underrated imo.
even if you include the first two and final years he played (31 total games) he averaged 111 runs and 117 rbi per year.
Their power numbers also were much lower (to think Aaron's should have been higher) due to the size of those old National League parks. Philadelphia's Shibe Park was 447 to center. Pittsburgh's Forbes field 442 to center and 457 to left/center. New York's Polo Grounds were 483 to center. Makes me appreciate the Willie Mays and Willie Stargell numbers more.
the 108 wins above replacement + 3 seasons more than twice as good as the average major leaguer in his last five are, uhh, incredible. nolan ryan was incredible if anyone tries to steal my early youth from me again I will kill them.
I too like Bryce Harper , post was a joke. I get pretty giddy thinking about all the young talent baseball has right now
Ripken wasn't really overrated. He was way better than Vizquel and Larkin. His streak was overrated though kinda. I mean fuck yeah it's hard to play that many games in a row, but it was mainly just luck.
Nolan Ryan isn't the greatest pitcher of all time or anything, but I'm not sure he's overrated, either. He had a 21-year stretch where the worst fWAR season he had was 2.8. From age 40-45, his fWAR in those seasons were 6.4, 3.4, 6.9, 5.1, 4.9 and 3.5. Essentially, his performance in his 40s was equivalent to David Price in his late 20s (since 2010, Price has been 4.3, 4.5, 5.1, 4.5, 6.1 and 3.5 so far this season). He wasn't out there just padding K numbers or whatever. He was still really good/great up until his final season. You compare his late years to someone like Rose, for example, who racked up 884 hits between 1980-86 and posted fWAR of 0.3, 1.9, 0.1, -1.9, 0.8, 0.8 and -0.8 (that's a total of 1.2 fWAR over a seven year stretch) while breaking the hits record and becoming what some people like to call "the greatest hitter of all time".